[11-09-04 22:01] Well there is no escping it now ladies and gentlemen... [11-09-04 22:01] I'm pleased to welcome you to first VOICE speakup we have had since quite some time. [11-09-04 22:02] Is there anybody who can keep a log ? [11-09-04 22:02] sure [11-09-04 22:02] I am too [11-09-04 22:02] Well turn on logging. [11-09-04 22:02] one sec [11-09-04 22:02] never done it in oc/2 before [11-09-04 22:02] Jan is already keeping a log. [11-09-04 22:02] So lets get started. [11-09-04 22:02] Logging here as well [11-09-04 22:02] I will be your host tonight Roderick Klein [11-09-04 22:03] and we have a guest [11-09-04 22:03] okay [11-09-04 22:03] will need to look that one up for next time [11-09-04 22:03] please give a virtual applause for Jan van Wijk [11-09-04 22:03] <--| Gord has left #voice [11-09-04 22:03] * eCSNL falls of the stage and opens the curtains [11-09-04 22:03] Jan welcome. [11-09-04 22:04] * PsiFire claps loudly [11-09-04 22:04] Thanks for staying up this night. [11-09-04 22:04] * eJoJo claps as well [11-09-04 22:04] Hi all. this is Jan van Wijk ... [11-09-04 22:04] For the people who don't know you. I suggest you just introduce your self futher and tell a bit about your software. [11-09-04 22:05] Yes, I see the applause is starving out now :-) [11-09-04 22:05] OK, a short introduction first [11-09-04 22:05] * eCSNL hands over the microphone to Jan. [11-09-04 22:05] I am a software-engineer with a background in DOS, OS/2, NT and UNIX/Linux system programming, system integration, networking, communications and WEB technology. [11-09-04 22:05] Started as a programmer with a multi-national over 20 years ago developing telephone-exchange firmware. [11-09-04 22:06] Been working as a (progStarted as a programmer with a multi-national over 20 years ago developing telephone-exchange firmware.ramming :-) consultant for about 15 years with a large softwarehouse. [11-09-04 22:06] First encounter with OS/2 (then called DOS 10 :-) in 1988 when I joined the development team for the Query-Manager, part of what later would be DB2 for OS2. [11-09-04 22:07] Developed a REXX-subset compiler/interpreter for that because the 'official' REXX subsystem was not ready yet. [11-09-04 22:07] Did a lot of OS2 system-integration and some programming for a project where over 8000 desptop systems needed to migrate from a DOS to an OS2 based environment. [11-09-04 22:07] The last few years in that project I actually developed a small program called DHPFS, to analyse and examine low-level HPFS disk-structures :-) [11-09-04 22:07] I quit that consulting job in 2001 to take a sabbatical leave; Still trying to decide when to end that ... [11-09-04 22:07] Actually I started my own company 'FSYS Software' after a few months to allow me to do freelance work and develop and sell my own products. [11-09-04 22:08] Hope you guys can keep on with the reading :-) Any questions sofar ? [11-09-04 22:09] Otherwise I'll say a bit about DFSee history [11-09-04 22:09] sounds good [11-09-04 22:09] As said, DFSee started out as a small utility to display some HPFS structures. [11-09-04 22:09] -->| jt (~chatzilla@fltg-dslttc1-30.fltg.net) has joined #voice [11-09-04 22:09] I added some partitioning logic over time because we needed batch-wise partitioning capability from a DOS boot-disk. [11-09-04 22:09] Since all of that was developed in my own time anyway, I later used those fragments to build a more generic disk analysis and partitiong tool, DFSee. [11-09-04 22:10] DFSee is designed to be as generic as possible, without much operating-system specific interface being used. [11-09-04 22:10] As a result, almost all functionality is available in all the versions, so you can do NTFS related maintenance from DOS, OS2 or Linux if you wish [11-09-04 22:10] The most important features are: partitioning, file-recovery, partition-recovery, imaging, cloning and interactive analysis [11-09-04 22:10] The single most-used feature in DFSee is the ability to find lost partitions and recreate them without loss of data (DFSDISK procedure) [11-09-04 22:10] Development of DFSee continues, new features are being added and bugs are being fixed. There is about one minor release every month ... [11-09-04 22:10] All minor releases (like all 6.xx versions) are FREE downloadable upgrades. [11-09-04 22:11] I plan to have about one MAJOR release a year, hopefully with some significant new functionality :-) Upgrading to a new MAJOR release does require you to pay an upgrade fee. [11-09-04 22:11] The latest big additions to DFSee have been the MOVE/COPY commands and menu-items, and the release (yesterday) of the native Linux executable. [11-09-04 22:11] OK, lets have some questions, and then some on future plans for DFSee ... [11-09-04 22:12] When and what is 7.xx? [11-09-04 22:12] Not written into stone yet, but WHEN is probably early 2005, and WHAT is some more JFS and EXT2 support to start with. [11-09-04 22:13] Also, do you ever see resizing capabilities that come close to PQMagic? [11-09-04 22:13] What you mean by JFS support. You can clone drives now including JFS right? [11-09-04 22:13] |<-- os2-007 has left irc.fyrelizard.com (Remote closed the connection) [11-09-04 22:13] FAT32 and NTFS are the major ones, because of Win preloads that pig the whole disk! [11-09-04 22:14] Perhaps, the problems is, I KNOW I would have to invest a couple of months worth of work into that, it requires a lot of analysis (reverse engineering) and it is somewhat of a moving target when MS decides to add/change stuff ..1 22 [11-09-04 22:14] Sigh. I understand. [11-09-04 22:14] so how does your software compare now to the likes of PartMagic and Ghost? [11-09-04 22:14] resizing would definatly be a big seller [11-09-04 22:14] resizing works already pretty well [11-09-04 22:15] but we're patient people...:-> [11-09-04 22:15] OK, FAT32 is a bit easier. However, to be really usefull I need to REORGANIZE the data towards the begin of a partition first, and that is a challenge in itself (for NTFS at least) [11-09-04 22:15] PsiFire: Did you mean how it compares ? [11-09-04 22:15] Can you already clone jfs partitions? [11-09-04 22:15] yes.... [11-09-04 22:15] OK, I'll answer that first then [11-09-04 22:16] could DFSee be a competitive replacement for the likes of PartMagic and Ghost? [11-09-04 22:16] At the moment not really, it is what can be termed an "extended subset" :-) [11-09-04 22:17] Meaning it has lots of usefull features that are NOT in any of those, but there are also quite a few important things that DFSee can NOT do yet, or is not very good at ... [11-09-04 22:17] One thing, for some users, is the user-interface which is not point-and-click yet. [11-09-04 22:18] it actually has had a great improvement with the menu system, thanks for that Jan! [11-09-04 22:18] any plans for a GUI of sorts? or owuld that ruin the platform independence? [11-09-04 22:18] About resizing, DFSee can SHRINK partition for FAT, HPFS and NTFS as long as there is free space at the end (it will not reorganize yet) [11-09-04 22:18] * eJoJo can actually understand and use it now :-) [11-09-04 22:18] I shudder at the prospect of P&C (GUI) - bloat and quirkiness... Just my own viewpoint. [11-09-04 22:18] So... I can image a disk, be it Linux, OS/2, Windows, and restore it from any of these OSs? [11-09-04 22:19] DFSee can make HPFS and NTFS partitions LARGER [11-09-04 22:19] jt: one would hope it owuld just be an option [11-09-04 22:19] There are some issues with resizing NTFS bootable Windows however, it works 90% of the time and fails to come-up in other cases, requiring recovery. [11-09-04 22:20] * PsiFire horked a Win2k boot bartition recently with a Partition Magic 8.0 rescue disk [11-09-04 22:20] * PsiFire was rather unhappy [11-09-04 22:20] thankfully it was just a base install that was easily redone [11-09-04 22:20] OK, about the GUI, I DO have vague plans to offer that sometime, but not in DFSee itself, a GUI version would probably be a reduced function (simpler) off-spring from DFSee [11-09-04 22:20] * Hawklord has nothing but praise for your product [11-09-04 22:20] * PsiFire downloaded the samples today and plans to check it out more later [11-09-04 22:20] Praise the product and more for the support! [11-09-04 22:21] if I were to choose tho, I'd rather see more function in the product than fancy grahpcis/GUI [11-09-04 22:21] For a GUI version I am thinking of using a platform-neutral library like WxWidgets, to be used on OS2, Win and Linux [11-09-04 22:21] So DFSee|JvW can I clone a hd that has HPFS, JFS partitions on it to another HD [11-09-04 22:22] I would like more functionality too, and that will be there don't worry :-) [11-09-04 22:22] |<-- SteveS has left irc.fyrelizard.com (Ping timeout: 241 seconds) [11-09-04 22:22] OK, I'll get into the cloning questions now. [11-09-04 22:22] |<-- jt has left irc.fyrelizard.com (ChatZilla 0.9.52B [Mozilla rv:1.6/20040117]) [11-09-04 22:22] The first one, can I clone a JFS partition ? [11-09-04 22:22] don't get me wrong, not complaining about present abilities.... [11-09-04 22:23] Yes..can it be done - JFS [11-09-04 22:23] The answer is, Yes if it is a SINGLE-partition JFS volume. You can use the new MOVE/COPY functionality to move or copy that elsewhere, and it will update the partition-tables as well as the LVM-information for you. [11-09-04 22:24] Moving or Copying a MULTI-partition volume will FAIL, allthough the situation is most often recoverable (with some support help :-) [11-09-04 22:24] The second question, can I clone a disk with JFS and some more on it ? [11-09-04 22:25] The answer is, Yes you have always been able to clone that using DFSee. [11-09-04 22:26] However, you get what you ask for, an EXACT CLONE on another disk, with DUPLICATE volumename, driveletters and so on, so you need to move that copied-disk out, or change some of thos values to be usefull. [11-09-04 22:26] It can be quite usefull to CLONE a complete system however, and as a disaster-recovery backup [11-09-04 22:27] Did I miss any questions ? [11-09-04 22:27] it would be cool if that worked on 'any' media [11-09-04 22:27] i.e. USB attached ;-) [11-09-04 22:27] (evil question..) [11-09-04 22:28] Yes I know, at the moment I depend fully on operating system support to access those ... [11-09-04 22:28] Is it possible to take away one partition from a JFS volume? [11-09-04 22:28] How does DFSee fall into the picture in regards to SVista? [11-09-04 22:28] but does it work? [11-09-04 22:28] I might investigate accessing some of that stuff using FreeDOS and (more or less) freely available drivers [11-09-04 22:29] I wouldn't mind if it worked with eCS only :-) [11-09-04 22:29] |<-- MADodel_ has left irc.fyrelizard.com (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) [11-09-04 22:29] can that be done? [11-09-04 22:29] Taking away a partiton from a JFS volume will not really work, it leaves you with an inconsistens volume. For the moment you'll have to use LVM.EXE or backup/restore tactics. [11-09-04 22:30] I mean cloning to an external drive attached over USB or firewire [11-09-04 22:30] That is already possible. [11-09-04 22:30] DFSee will CLONE to any disk thatbis considered to be a HARDDISK by OS2 itself [11-09-04 22:31] It will IMAGE to any driveletter (volume) that it has normal file-access to (like a network drive) [11-09-04 22:31] ok [11-09-04 22:31] cool [11-09-04 22:31] How does DFSee fall into the picture in regards to SVista? [11-09-04 22:31] So for CLONING, you need a driver that presents the USB disk as partitionable-media to OS2 [11-09-04 22:31] OK, SVista [11-09-04 22:32] -->| MADodel (~madodel@24.238.72.16.res-cmts.sth.ptd.net) has joined #voice [11-09-04 22:32] =-= Mode #voice +o MADodel by ChanServ [11-09-04 22:32] Since SVista emulates/virtualizes a complete PC, DFSee will work in an SVIsta guest if that is running DOS, OS2, Win or Linux :-) [11-09-04 22:32] SVISTA please, the branding has to be SVISTA thanks.. [11-09-04 22:33] OK, SVISTA :-) [11-09-04 22:33] ;-) [11-09-04 22:33] Can the image created by DFSee be used as an SVISTA container? [11-09-04 22:33] cool [11-09-04 22:33] Perhaps you can use DFSee to do some usefull things for the SVISTA host as well, but I have not reallu checked that yet. [11-09-04 22:34] I think that is possible, you can create RAW images with DFSee that are not compressed at all, and I think SVISTA can use those. [11-09-04 22:34] Note however that these will be as LARGE as the disk they represent! [11-09-04 22:34] * PsiFire still needs to mess around with images for SVISTA [11-09-04 22:34] When I image a drive - can DFSee break it up into set sizes? [11-09-04 22:34] Someone made a small tool that will convert between DFSee RAW, SVISTA and some form of Virtual-PC containers [11-09-04 22:35] Imaging: [11-09-04 22:35] Yes, at least if what you mean is create multiple files for a single disk/partition, where each file will fit a floppy, CDROM, DVD or whatever ... [11-09-04 22:36] -->| MADodel_ (~MADodel@24.238.72.16.res-cmts.sth.ptd.net) has joined #voice [11-09-04 22:36] What does SVISTA look like on the disk? Is it a special volume? [11-09-04 22:36] You can specify to LIMIT the size of the created image-files, and it will automatically switch from .IMZ to .002, .003 and so on ... [11-09-04 22:36] Yes.. thanks [11-09-04 22:37] I dont know the SVISTA fileformat, but most likely it is a simple FILE, not a filesystem/volume. [11-09-04 22:37] But a file can be 2 Gibyte only? [11-09-04 22:37] They probably have options to COMPRESS that conatiner-file (making it unsuitable to work with DFSee). [11-09-04 22:37] * PsiFire wishes SVISTA could boot from a CD [11-09-04 22:38] SVISTA is NOT an operating system, it can't boot on its won, it needs a HOST operating system. [11-09-04 22:38] Hawklord - SVISTA has a harddisk container which is just a single file to the host OS [11-09-04 22:38] Files are limited to 2GiB on HPFS and FAT and could be larger on JFS. [11-09-04 22:38] correct [11-09-04 22:38] DFSee DOES support files over 2GiB, but the destination has to be JFS in that case ... [11-09-04 22:39] OK, more questions ? [11-09-04 22:39] Last one for me... [11-09-04 22:40] currently can DFSee clone a Windoz XP NTFS partition [11-09-04 22:40] If you are going to release 7.0 early next year .... why shouldn't I wait until then to buy... I want to buy for the imaging.. [11-09-04 22:40] Have you ever thought of DFSee able to multicast to serveral system to image? [11-09-04 22:41] OK, one by one ... [11-09-04 22:41] DFSee can clone Windows-XP NTFS partitions. CLONING is a simple sector-by-sector copy, and does NOT depend on contents [11-09-04 22:42] * PsiFire rephrases.....i wiahs SVISTA could boot a host from a CD....:-> [11-09-04 22:42] I do that all the time to keep a backup on a second disk that I can CLONE back if my main one decides to fail ... [11-09-04 22:42] So then could I essentially clone a Novell hd [11-09-04 22:42] Sorry...I need to clarify it when I mean multicast, push out images over IP [11-09-04 22:43] Yes, cloning a Novell HD should be no problem, as long as you can boot that system with one of the operating systems that will run DFSee [11-09-04 22:43] Hey...thanks that is great news... [11-09-04 22:44] About version 7.0 and waiting for it ... [11-09-04 22:44] or use your bootable cd [11-09-04 22:44] Of course you can wait, and it will save you a few dollars. I just depends on what you need [11-09-04 22:45] Buying the full version (first time buyer) is arround 50 dollars at the moment, and version 7 will not be much more. [11-09-04 22:45] Upgrading from one major version to the next is about HALF the price for a full version. [11-09-04 22:45] Just a few weeks ago I purchased your DFSee [11-09-04 22:45] In the mean time, you can download ALL minor upgrades for free and use them with your registration [11-09-04 22:46] WarpedOS2: was that a statement, or the start of question ? [11-09-04 22:46] -->| ShadwWulf (subzero@c-67-161-213-42.client.comcast.net) has joined #voice [11-09-04 22:46] Your tool to apply the registration before you burn from the ISO is a great Idea [11-09-04 22:46] Just a statement [11-09-04 22:46] does it work on Linux? [11-09-04 22:46] I like yoiur product better than Ghost.. [11-09-04 22:47] I only do my burning and downloading with Linux [11-09-04 22:47] Yes, that tool was the only way to allow people to download the ISO and really use it :-) [11-09-04 22:47] It also allows me to sell UNIQUE (individual) branded CDs quite easy. [11-09-04 22:47] i was wondering how one changed the serial on the ISO [11-09-04 22:48] And, Yes, as of yesterday, there is a program called 'ikeyiso' that runs on linux :-) [11-09-04 22:48] -->| Saxius (~Saxius@0x503e3d0e.kd4nxx4.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk) has joined #voice [11-09-04 22:48] nice [11-09-04 22:48] :-) [11-09-04 22:48] =-= Saxius is now known as Teamnord [11-09-04 22:49] Would it be difficult to have an image sent to say 10 different identical systems over IP, like a master slave mode or something like that [11-09-04 22:49] The 'serial' on the CD is really just the contents of a file (dfsee.key), and I simply search that and replace the contenst in the ISO file [11-09-04 22:49] OK, multicasting. [11-09-04 22:49] yes...multicasting [11-09-04 22:49] Yikes! Ivan is now 165 MPH :-( [11-09-04 22:50] like Ghost does [11-09-04 22:50] OK, under the tables then! [11-09-04 22:50] Under my tables it floods :-( [11-09-04 22:50] Multicasting is not supported by DFSee itself, and I think it is hard to support at the moment. [11-09-04 22:50] Ok...fair enough [11-09-04 22:51] This is because DFSee itself has no built-in IP connectivity, it just uses whatever network connection you have, be it SMB or TCP/IP based. [11-09-04 22:51] There will be SOME optimisation in some of those protocols if you sned the same contents to many recepients, but not much. [11-09-04 22:52] To implement multi-cast, DFSee would need to implement its own protocol on top of IP [11-09-04 22:52] Oh really [11-09-04 22:53] OK, more question that I missed, or new ones ? [11-09-04 22:54] well i definatly look forward to the resizing [11-09-04 22:55] It is already there, just not realy on-par with Partition-Magic and some others :-) [11-09-04 22:55] Any developers here (hi Steve :-) ? [11-09-04 22:55] so what do you have planned again for 7.xx? [11-09-04 22:55] I'd love to develop but need to learn programming again....:-> [11-09-04 22:55] OK, DFSee future ... [11-09-04 22:56] When the dust from the Linux release setles, I plan to work on some filesystems again, with JFS and EXT2/3 and perhaps ReiserFS as main topics [11-09-04 22:56] Features to be implemented for that are some FIX commands for superblocks and so on, and file-recovery [11-09-04 22:56] Significant updates in that area would probably be released for version 7.xx sometime next year. [11-09-04 22:56] For the long term, there might a real GUI (graphical interface) for OS2, Win and Linux and perhaps just with the major features that are now in DFSee. [11-09-04 22:56] A product like that would need to be easier to use than the current DFSee, needing less inside knowledge or guidance from an expert. [11-09-04 22:57] It is also possible that new OSs like FreeBSD or even MAC-OS (Panther) will be looked at ... [11-09-04 22:57] I was going to ask if it supports FreeBSD file system. [11-09-04 22:58] what does FreeBSD use for a filesystem? [11-09-04 22:58] No, not yet, I think it DOES recognise the type, but nothing inside the filesystem. I would probably add that when making a FreeBSD version ... [11-09-04 22:59] I am not sure what it is called, but it is a further developed version of the classic UNIX filesystem. I think SUN has something very similar too. [11-09-04 22:59] Hi Jan. Just got back from a honey-do session. Now I'm caught up on the log. :-) [11-09-04 23:01] Hi Steve. OK, did you see the developer question ? [11-09-04 23:01] I am playing with the idea of opening up parts of my UI library ... [11-09-04 23:01] Sorta, but I suspect I missed the context. [11-09-04 23:01] I am a developer too... [11-09-04 23:02] That might be useful for folks doing VIO apps. [11-09-04 23:02] Hard to say where it sits in the scheme of things in terms of what OS/2 needs in the way of tools. [11-09-04 23:02] Context, see line above. The point is, I have put quite some effort in building that text-mode menu and dialog-based UI, and two things are bothering me a bit: [11-09-04 23:03] 1) It is a shame that developers would need to re-invent the weel for similar interfaces [11-09-04 23:03] -->| Q (topdog@gso26-156-244.triad.rr.com) has joined #voice [11-09-04 23:03] 2) There is no 'sharing' of development power, me (and DFSee) could benefit from sharing as well, like if someone would add mouse-support :-) [11-09-04 23:04] mouse support to a VIO session? [11-09-04 23:04] What do you all think ? [11-09-04 23:04] True. One of the things that was missing from Henk Kelder's checkini release was the code for the UI library. [11-09-04 23:04] mouse reminds me of Partition Magic in windoze :-p [11-09-04 23:05] I toyed with reimplementing it, but it never reached the top of the list. [11-09-04 23:05] don't need no stinkin mouse for DFSee [11-09-04 23:05] Jan: Mouse-support YES. Share code: YES!! [11-09-04 23:05] I don't need mouse support, but I tend to be in the minority. [11-09-04 23:05] OK, the problem is, I would not want to release it with something like GPL since I feel I would loose control ... [11-09-04 23:05] I got along just fine without the menus. :-) [11-09-04 23:05] meetoo [11-09-04 23:05] What part of control would you lose? [11-09-04 23:05] loose or lose control [11-09-04 23:05] ? [11-09-04 23:05] income prolly [11-09-04 23:06] OK, the mouse is just an example, there are lots of new 'controls' and other behaviour to be added :-) [11-09-04 23:06] Well, opening the source is by definition a form of giving up control. [11-09-04 23:06] DFSee|JvW: have you looked at LGPL? [11-09-04 23:06] You might consider LGPL or the Mozilla license. [11-09-04 23:06] |<-- Q has left irc.fyrelizard.com (The Internet Just Locked Up!) [11-09-04 23:06] Yes. [11-09-04 23:06] No, it is not really about icome, allthough I would hate to see other make profits from it, it is the amount of management required [11-09-04 23:07] Well, once you open it up, what's to manage? [11-09-04 23:07] I have not checked LGPL in detail no ... [11-09-04 23:07] Please don't sell it to Norton!!! [11-09-04 23:07] LGPL is basically the GPL except you can use it linked again commercial/non-GPL apps [11-09-04 23:08] Norton is death. [11-09-04 23:08] Felix: I would NOT be selling DFSee or open that up, just the UI part ... [11-09-04 23:08] subsumation [11-09-04 23:09] assimilation [11-09-04 23:09] Well, I guess my point is, I would like to keep in touch with 'the other developers' for mutual benefit, without having a huge management burden somehow ... [11-09-04 23:09] Hopefully, those that make enhancements will have the ethics to past them back to you. [11-09-04 23:09] past -> pass. [11-09-04 23:09] maybe setup a CVS for the UI only? [11-09-04 23:09] I guess I'll have that discussion again at Warpstock in about 6 weeks from now :-) [11-09-04 23:10] PsiFire, that just provides access. It really does nothing for control. [11-09-04 23:11] Warpstock needs a cable connection so people like Jan don't have to get lost for two weeks or more to support. [11-09-04 23:11] Now, if Jan wanted to he, could set up a closed CVS and control who he allows to access the code. [11-09-04 23:11] However, that's really not quite open source. [11-09-04 23:11] InJoy firewall has (or had) a text-mode UI too, a good one. [11-09-04 23:11] that it did [11-09-04 23:11] Sorry I meant dialer [11-09-04 23:11] Steven, that could be a good idea, however, I can't host a CVS repository at my ISP I think ... [11-09-04 23:11] is there a controllable CVS? [11-09-04 23:12] Yes. It is called CVS. [11-09-04 23:12] look to netlabs perhaps? [11-09-04 23:12] doh...of course...:-& [11-09-04 23:12] Sorry. Couldn't resist. [11-09-04 23:12] but then why does it do nothing for control? [11-09-04 23:13] The official 'open source' status is not of much importance to me. It is being able to share development effort ... [11-09-04 23:13] Felix: There will be some internet access for attendees at Warpstock in the Exhibit area. [11-09-04 23:13] In that case, perhaps a by request CVS repository is a good way to go. [11-09-04 23:13] To be usefull, using CVS (or any other variation) reuires some planning ahead an maintenace (a librarian) [11-09-04 23:14] that was 'requires' :-) [11-09-04 23:14] defining the terms of code sharing up front is vital. If it's not defined you end up with somebody swiping the code and no recourse [11-09-04 23:14] MADodel as long as Jan knows that ;-) [11-09-04 23:15] About Internet access at Warpstock, I can access the dfsee-support group from any browser, but would need a cable connection, and an SMTP server for full email-support. [11-09-04 23:15] Recourse is in the mind of the beholder, especially when the person(s) you want to go after are half way around the world. [11-09-04 23:15] We just can't allow the limitless access that there has been in past events. [11-09-04 23:16] Setting up a CVS respository and managing is pretty simple. There are a number of folks around the understand the process. [11-09-04 23:16] Yes I understand that, I think the hotel offers some cable access in the rooms too, not sure about SMTP [11-09-04 23:16] We can always setup an SMTP server. CHuck McKinnis has done that in the past [11-09-04 23:17] so hook up a wireless AP in your room and hnag it out the window....:-> [11-09-04 23:17] The speakup is more then half way now. [11-09-04 23:17] 2 hour event? [11-09-04 23:17] Isn't the SMPT issue a matter of whether or not the ISP will accept an out of network SMTP connection? [11-09-04 23:17] Steven: I'll get back to you by email (or at Warpstock for sure) [11-09-04 23:17] May I note that this is going of topic [11-09-04 23:17] OK. [11-09-04 23:17] warpstock and SMTP severs! [11-09-04 23:18] So, ask an on topic question. :-) [11-09-04 23:18] OK, how about DFSee class and presentations at Warpstock ? [11-09-04 23:18] Any on-topic questions ? [11-09-04 23:19] I wouldn't mind discussing some resizing options that dfsee might be able to implement. [11-09-04 23:19] Ok, go ahead ... [11-09-04 23:20] Since resize in place is hard, perhaps there are relatively easy to implement alternatives. [11-09-04 23:20] IS there an optimize partitioon option in DFSee? [11-09-04 23:20] kind of like defragging [11-09-04 23:20] No, no OPTIMIZE yet, there might be one someday though ... [11-09-04 23:21] that would be cool to see [11-09-04 23:21] One idea I had which is based on having sufficient free space is to move files to a holding volume and then copy back after adjusting the partition size. [11-09-04 23:21] I know HPFS doesn't defrag in the traditional sense, but optimizing it would be nice [11-09-04 23:21] Steven: I do not think the problem with resizing is the in-place aspect, it is knowing EXACTLY what every cluster is, and to what other structures it is related too or rferenced by [11-09-04 23:21] This would sort of be like a two way dsync with a resize in the middle. [11-09-04 23:22] That's why I'm suggesting working at the file level. [11-09-04 23:22] The two-way sync (files copy) would not really work at the moment since it looses information, not all the file properties (like NTFS attributes) [11-09-04 23:23] are present on the copy, and not all operating systems would support reading/writing them. [11-09-04 23:23] How difficult is this to add, compared to being able to reorg at the cluster level? [11-09-04 23:24] I expect there to be limitations, but they might not be show stoppers. [11-09-04 23:24] You need 100% certainty you have caught ALL references to in-use clusters before doing either one ... [11-09-04 23:25] The problem is that READING file-data from a complex filesystem is LOTS easier than creating or adding to such a filesystem. [11-09-04 23:25] -->| os2-007 (~chatzilla@fl-64-45-208-169.sta.sprint-hsd.net) has joined #voice [11-09-04 23:26] It is not a coincidence that many FS-drivers stay read-only for years (or forever :-)) [11-09-04 23:26] How about if you limit resizing to when you booted to OS that supports the filesystem natively? [11-09-04 23:27] That might help in the case of your 'two-way dsync', but I don't really like that idea ... [11-09-04 23:27] This would be something to split-off perhaps and put in a dedicated utility [11-09-04 23:28] OK, anything else ? [11-09-04 23:29] hmmmm [11-09-04 23:29] Good night everybody [11-09-04 23:29] night Hawklord [11-09-04 23:29] |<-- Hawklord has left irc.fyrelizard.com (Chatzilla 0.9.64g [Mozilla rv:1.7/20040629]) [11-09-04 23:30] So, are we all staring at the screen now ? ;-) [11-09-04 23:31] sorry being here late, is dfsee has the abilities of the old partition magic version 3 mover copying and resizing jfs volumens ? [11-09-04 23:31] * eJoJo is [11-09-04 23:32] os2-007: Some of that yes, it CAN MOVE or COPY JFS volumes that just have a SINGLE partition. It cannot do multi-partitions very well yet, and it can NOT resize JFS either ... [11-09-04 23:32] * PsiFire is drooling over dinner [11-09-04 23:32] More JFS support is planned for version 7.xx, but I am not sure that resizing is doable by then. [11-09-04 23:33] -->| chili (~chili@S01060050180ebc97.vn.shawcable.net) has joined #voice [11-09-04 23:33] so it can't expand JFS either? [11-09-04 23:33] mmmm....chili [11-09-04 23:33] ahhhh, is there a cdrom version of dfsee now or iso , and how much does it cost ? [11-09-04 23:33] No, no resizing at all. The onlu EXPAND that you can do (with LVM) is really just ADDING another partition to your volume ... [11-09-04 23:34] About COST: [11-09-04 23:34] so you can't expand HPFS or FAT either? [11-09-04 23:35] yeah the volumes are complicated, resizing movieing and copy partition for jfs is a challenge now, not like the hpfs which was more flexable [11-09-04 23:35] Yes, there is a CDROM version, you can buey a ready made 8cm mini-CD (includes a registration) at the Mensys shop (47 Euro) and if you already have a registration, you can download an ISO image and burn it yourself. [11-09-04 23:35] awesome [11-09-04 23:36] More details can be found on my website: http://www.dfsee.com and the links to the Mensys shop from there. [11-09-04 23:36] DFSee|JvW: is there any resailers in the usa for it like bmtmicro ? [11-09-04 23:36] loading [11-09-04 23:36] mensys ships worldwide [11-09-04 23:36] and takes all major creditcards [11-09-04 23:37] The CDROM is a BOOTABLE one, that boots FreeDOS and has a fully operational DFSDOS version, but it also has the other versions, to be installed on the HD perhaps. [11-09-04 23:37] * MikeG Thanks for all the info [11-09-04 23:37] PsiFire:, HPFS CAN be expanded, FAT or FAT32 can not (at the moment) [11-09-04 23:38] awesome it clones and images too ;) [11-09-04 23:38] http://www.ecomstation.biz/cgi-bin/db2www/biz_art2.d2w/report?catname=DFSee [11-09-04 23:38] For the people attending Warpstock, I will probably bring some CDs with me, that you can get there with a small discount. [11-09-04 23:39] Yes, CLONING and IMAGING is probably the second biggest use for DFSee, after partition-recovery. Some large companies are using it for roll-out and disaster-recovery. [11-09-04 23:40] One large anti-virus company uses it to clean amd reinstall their testsystems quickly :-) [11-09-04 23:40] |<-- MikeG has left irc.fyrelizard.com (Chatzilla 0.9.64g [Mozilla rv:1.7/20040617]) [11-09-04 23:40] -->| MikeG (~chatzilla@ip68-10-91-13.hr.hr.cox.net) has joined #voice [11-09-04 23:41] OK, no more questions ? [11-09-04 23:42] * MikeG Once again thanks - you sold me [11-09-04 23:42] OK, that never hurts :-) [11-09-04 23:43] I was briefly away. [11-09-04 23:43] im purchasing it, it is awesome, a must must have utilitiy for ecs, which replaces the now windoze only partition magic [11-09-04 23:43] OK, well I think we are about done here ... [11-09-04 23:43] I'm getting the impression (correct if I'm wrong). Jan has told everything he could think of :-) [11-09-04 23:43] DFSee|JvW: thanks ;) [11-09-04 23:43] MAdodel...I joined late. Will this chat be at "voice"? [11-09-04 23:43] =-= Teamnord is now known as Teamnord- [11-09-04 23:43] There are still some things todo before it equals Partition-Magic, but I am slowly getting there ... [11-09-04 23:44] is there a version of DFSee that one can use as a sample before buying? [11-09-04 23:45] ie...does the downloadable version work for a short time then expire? [11-09-04 23:45] =-= Teamnord- is now known as Team-away [11-09-04 23:45] * PsiFire was out marinading some shripms [11-09-04 23:45] DFSee|JvW: yes we need it for jfs and the volumes, partition magic saved me in a lot of situations in the past , we need dfsee for jfs and volujmes now, it can be better than partition magic [11-09-04 23:45] shrimps [11-09-04 23:46] <--| Team-away has left #voice [11-09-04 23:46] does DFSee do all the things that LVM can? [11-09-04 23:46] Yes, you can always download the latest version, without a registration it will expire 62 days after creation (when I compile it :-) [11-09-04 23:46] I've always found LVM a little hard to navigate around and use [11-09-04 23:46] gotcha [11-09-04 23:47] DFSee does not do EVERYTHING that LVM does yet, the two most important things missing are: [11-09-04 23:47] 1) CREATION of LVM/JFS volumes (it will create COMPATIBILITY ones just fine) [11-09-04 23:48] 2) Handle multi-partition LVM/JFS volumes with COPY/MOVE operations [11-09-04 23:48] The first one is solvable, just some time to invest there. The second is more difficult. [11-09-04 23:49] The LVM user-interface suffers from its logical/physical seperation that most people don't undrstand ... [11-09-04 23:49] well, you definatly seem to be on the right track [11-09-04 23:49] OK, thanks [11-09-04 23:50] thats exactly the difficulty that i have with it [11-09-04 23:50] I'm always afraid I will mess something up [11-09-04 23:50] but so far I've been successful with enough tip toeing around [11-09-04 23:51] OK, well you can use DFSee to 'look arround'. If you are paranoid, it even has a "make read-only" menu-item in the File menu. [11-09-04 23:52] The 'read-only' meaning DFSee will NOT write to the disks ... [11-09-04 23:52] well now that's handy [11-09-04 23:53] -->| SteveS (~schiffman@slip-12-65-132-141.mis.prserv.net) has joined #voice [11-09-04 23:54] OK, anyone ? [11-09-04 23:55] Beuller? [11-09-04 23:56] what do you use to code DFSee? you said Watcomm right? [11-09-04 23:56] Any remaining questions can be sent to my support email too: support@dfsee.com [11-09-04 23:56] Watcom: [11-09-04 23:57] === eCSNL <~eCSNL@cust.11.14.adsl.cistron.nl> ``eCSNL'' [11-09-04 23:57] === eCSNL: member of #voice [11-09-04 23:57] === eCSNL: attached to irc.nj.webbnet.org ``, NJ WEBBnet Hub/Client Server'' [11-09-04 23:57] === eCSNL: idle for 2 seconds (on since 11-09-04 22:19:58) [11-09-04 23:57] --- End of WHOIS information for eCSNL. [11-09-04 23:57] Yes, I started programming DFSee using IBM CSET (before VAC existed) and later used VAC 3.0 and 3.65. I switched to OpenWatcom (or actiually Watcom 11.0) early last year [11-09-04 23:58] I now build all 4 versions from a single makefile on eCS ... [11-09-04 23:58] very nice [11-09-04 23:59] I just do some testing on DOS, Windows and Linux (some in a virtual PC) [12-09-04 00:00] In the early days I has three different compilers, one for every platform, which was quite a pain in the you-know-what :-) [12-09-04 00:01] having one make file for all of them is definatly a bonus [12-09-04 00:01] I gotta start getting back into C [12-09-04 00:01] then work into C++ and OOPS [12-09-04 00:02] DFSee is plain "C" at the moment. might go to C++ when adding a 'real' GUI [12-09-04 00:02] interesting to hear [12-09-04 00:02] Great PsiFire your next for a speakup on C coding :-) :-) [12-09-04 00:02] good to see that good things still come from plain C [12-09-04 00:02] Ladies and gentlemen. [12-09-04 00:02] hey...me and mikeG can run a C coding forum for beginniers [12-09-04 00:02] BY beginners....:-> [12-09-04 00:03] All good things must come to an end. [12-09-04 00:03] I hope we can do this again [12-09-04 00:03] I be there at the beginners [12-09-04 00:03] Had a good turn out [12-09-04 00:03] Sadly [12-09-04 00:03] I think we need to have more of these....i miss them [12-09-04 00:03] And I have more people on the list for speakups. [12-09-04 00:03] awesome....any hints? [12-09-04 00:03] sounds good eCSNL [12-09-04 00:03] I'm in... [12-09-04 00:03] Thanks for listening to me ... [12-09-04 00:04] Spread the word. [12-09-04 00:04] will do [12-09-04 00:04] Thanks for your time, Jan! [12-09-04 00:04] would you guys like to set a date/time perhaps? we can have it here or in a special made channel [12-09-04 00:04] * eCSNL hands our speaker a virtual book coupon and thanks him. [12-09-04 00:04] * eJoJo knows it's night at this side of the ocean [12-09-04 00:04] * PsiFire just thought of a good article to write for VOICE newsletter [12-09-04 00:05] PsiFire more voice articles are always welcome. [12-09-04 00:05] He, who said anything about 'virtual' ? :-) [12-09-04 00:05] Appreciate you coming here DFSee|JvW and talking directly to ya. [12-09-04 00:05] You're all very welcome! [12-09-04 00:05]